>As for someone saying that they should be hired for security work because they >demonstrated their skill by acquiring a criminal record as opposed to a >degree, that is ludicrous. I know plenty of people without criminal records >that have the same skills, and better. I agree in part..but still feel that hackers possess a different set of skills..the finding of *new* undocumented holes is down to those who experiment not those who patch and monitor...the best example I can think of are the servers at AT&T how do you think they got soo very secure? By learning form hackers....and do you think they think they are somehow better than hackers? No...they keep learning new techniques etc to keep the hackers out...Software such as probes and sniffers are constantly being updated by hackers for their own means..the only way anyone can hope to beat the hackers is to play them at their own game! (See An Evening with Berferd...very enlightening!) g.